you're reading...
Guest Authors

Guest Author – Isabel Rogers on What a Poet can teach a Novelist

Isabel_2Nov_053This morning I found myself simultaneously emptying the dishwasher, waiting for an insurance company to answer the phone and thinking about poetry. I will not pretend this is my life.  (OK, it is, apart from the poetry bit.) I was trying to mentally compose an introduction worthy of the Literary Sofa’s first visit by a guest poet, a task and a half.  Isabel Rogers was awarded the prestigious Cardiff International Poetry Prize in 2014 and has just been appointed Hampshire Poet 2016. She has become a good friend to me and I have her to thank for changing the way I think and feel about the form – to the extent that next week I am going to follow this post with one of my own, called Why I stopped being afraid of poetry (or something better).

Isabel Rogers’ poetry springs from intellectual curiosity, profound humanity and an extraordinary understanding of the breadth and potential of the English language. (I cannot think of her poem The Cost of Living without welling up.)  She’s not paying me to say this – I’ve had my reward many times over in the form of stimulating conversations real and virtual and everything that she, as a poet, has taught me as a novelist. This is yours:

Do you think poets can teach novelists anything? Isabel C has given me free rein to plump the Literary Sofa cushions and loll about, pontificating. (It won’t be rigorous or academic, I warn you.) We met on twitter because we both write novels, but I also transform into a poet. My work has been published, I’ve won the odd prize, and as of 1st January I can call myself Hampshire Poet 2016. I only boast so you’ll think I know what I’m talking about.

Poems are older than novels. We’ve told ourselves stories since we’ve been human, across camp fires before anyone could write. Don Paterson says a poem is ‘a little machine for remembering itself’, and it’s true. We needed rhythm, rhyme and alliteration to pass on our great sagas.

So far so obvious, but I have questions. Are poetry and prose really so different?  We use the same words, after all. Who defines each genre? What’s in it for them? Why is it that people generally turn to poetry, not prose, to mark major life and death events? Why aren’t there any poet multimillionaires?

Does poetry have more intrinsic weight? Shakespeare used formal, rhymed lines for his serious stuff and loosened up with a freer style when feathering in a funny subplot, but the most popular modern poems are often funny ones. They certainly sell. Pam Ayres is not poor.

What defines a poem? If you don’t know any poets, let me reveal a world riven with envy, rivalry, hopeless lust, barely disguised hatred, alcohol and incomprehension. And that’s just your average open mic night. My opinions will be controversial because there are more poetry factions than anti-Roman groups in Life of Brian, but here goes:

You can’t shove random words higgledy-piggledy on a page and call it a poem. Especially the higgledy-piggledy ones.

  1. Just because you call it a poem doesn’t mean it is. We are not Humpty Dumpty.
  2. There are certain technical specifications defining some poetical forms. Ignore those and you simply have not written, for example, a pantoum, a sestina or a haiku. You just haven’t. Bog off with your heartfelt, non-scanned*, non-rhyming nonsense.
  3. Some non-scanning, non-rhyming words put together with care are the most beautiful poems I know.
  4. There is a thin line between obscure-but-definitely-worth-it and plain ridiculous. I know when I cross it.
  5. I reserve the right to call out rubbish.

I suppose what I’m trying to get at here is my belief in hard work. The level of attention when writing a poem can approach zen-like stillness, when you are attuned to the rhythm and cadence of a line. When that line sings, you feel it. It’s like music. I’m not dissing modern, freer styles of writing (either in poetry or prose), but carelessness shows. Hurrying something out before it’s ready shows. There are fewer places to hide in a poem than in a novel.

Poetry exposure makes me read differently. I trip over glitches and bumps that stop me enjoying something I might if I relaxed a bit. I remember thinking The Time Traveler’s Wife was an amazing story while hating the clunky writing. I once picked up a Jeffrey Archer novel in a (former) friend’s spare room and shut it pretty damn quickly. I may have thrown it across the carpet. No insomnia excuses that kind of writing.

I was lucky enough to read Isabel C’s latest novel Paris Mon Amour at an early stage; she asked me because she trusts my close reading. We talked about how ends of chapters and stanzas correlate. When you choose, as a poet, to use a certain word or phrase to end a stanza, or  indeed the whole poem, you weight that phrase simply because of the space you leave after it.

Line ends have a similar emphasis. White space on the page is powerful stuff: misuse it at your peril. A lot of novice poets don’t trust their words enough to stand without the buffer of space around them

and what comes across

is often a stilted emphasis

which has

the cumulative effect of something


than a simple phrase sure

of its own


Novels need contrast. Reading Hardy, I wonder at the marvel of his prose as he spreads it with sure hands over the page, and then I hit a phrase he puts in deliberately to be harder, like a rock under the water. But if he wrote with that viscosity all the time, you’d never get on. It would be too spiky. He was wise enough to know we need both.

Some writers are novelists and poets, of course: Hardy being one of the finest. See also Helen Dunmore, Alice Walker, Michael Ondaatje and Margaret Atwood. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these people wrote some of my favourite novels. Shakespeare was known to bash out a bit of doggerel when not writing plays. Is there a link?

The divide between prose and poetry is more blurred today than ever: Max Porter’s Grief is the thing with feathers has been defined as a novella and was shortlisted as prose. Claudia Rankine’s Citizen won the 2015 Forward Prize for best poetry collection. They are both outstanding literary works. Looking at their pages, I can’t easily see the difference. If anything, some of Rankine’s pages are more ‘prosey’ than Porter’s.

My closing theory is this *clears throat* (it’s not about dinosaurs): writing is a continuum, meandering from highly stylised formal poetry through loose modern stuff, prose poems, flash fiction and short stories, arriving at some of our current prose that ignores traditional grammar. It runs from the finest single malt whisky to clear water you can drink by the gallon. Thirst dictates taste.

So, is that all clear? I haven’t even answered all my questions: it’s so subjective. One man’s poetry is another woman’s Bad Sex Award. Discuss.

* Scansion in poetry is (basically) showing how you can divide it up rhythmically into feet: used in the kind of poem that Bertie Wooster can’t remember but recites as ‘ti-tum-ti-tum, ti-tumpty tum’.

Many thanks from one Isabel to another – I’m sure you’ll agree this piece offers some fascinating and valuable insights, doubly so if you’re a novelist!

How do YOU feel about poetry?


The response to my Fiction Hot Picks 2016 was absolutely amazing.  I thought it was the strongest selection so far and it seems you agreed! Thank you so much for the appreciation, for sharing it and to all those who entered the competition (now ended). The most frequent comment was that it’s ‘not the same books as everywhere else’, closely followed by ‘most of these are new to me.’  I can’t think of a better reason to keep doing it and look forward to welcoming a fair few of the authors to the blog in the coming weeks and months.


About Isabel Costello

Writer (novels: Paris Mon Amour 2017; Scent 2021).Host of the Literary Sofa blog. Co-founder of Resilience for Writers with Voula Tsoflias. Perfume lover and Francophile.


14 thoughts on “Guest Author – Isabel Rogers on What a Poet can teach a Novelist

  1. Great article, Isabels! I’ve written poetry in the past, and had a few published, but novels have taken over for now. But I think my poetry writing years have informed my prose writing. When you write poems I think you become very, very attuned to words and their sound and meaning, and to syntax. I still read poems and that definitely helps my writing. It’s one of my tips for novelists: read poems!

    Posted by louisewalters12 | January 13, 2016, 12:03
  2. I love this. Fantastic post, thanks the Isabels. I enjoy reading and listening to poetry (and teaching it back when) but I can’t write a decent one. However, I really like the places you’ve identified where poetry and prose overlap and what a prose writer can learn from it. I’m taking a few of those ideas with me, thank you.

    Posted by naomifrisby | January 13, 2016, 12:49
  3. Great post, both Isabels! As a poet, publisher of other poets and obsessive novel-reader, I agree, agree, agree.

    Posted by Jennifer | January 13, 2016, 12:52
  4. Really interesting read. My first novel is being published this June and I’m worried that many people will think it is ‘too poetic’, and yet I know it’s a long long way from formal poetry. What mattered to me as I wrote was the weight of every word, every phrase, every paragraph, and how they fitted together. It’s about the experience of depression, and much of that experience for me was akin to a form of hypnosis, and that trance-like state (again for me) is often a marker of the most powerful poetry. Which is to say that what you write about the spectrum from formal poetry to plot-driven prose, from whisky to water, rings absolutely true.

    Posted by katejarmstrong | January 13, 2016, 12:58
  5. Oh what a fantastic post… some excellent pointers I’ll be noting & making use of.

    I grew up thinking, with the exception of humorists like Pam Aires & Spike Milligan, I wasn’t posh enough to read poetry never mind write it; I almost didn’t do CW as part of my degree because of the compulsory poetry blocks with each module. Amazingly, once I got over my hang ups, I loved studying the art of poetry and having a dabble (something quite Krypton factor but satisfying playing with words to fit forms – especially my favourite thebsestina) but just as your post highlights the key benefits are how it influences my own writing… taking poetic elements and applying them to prose can make a huge difference to how a story is heard.

    I followed the link to The Cost of Living and strongly recommend any visitors here do so too… fab! Thank you! Both of you… taking some time out to ponder reading & writing resolutions & goals at the moment, I’ll be dusting off some of my poetry books shelved since Uni.

    Posted by poppypeacockpens | January 13, 2016, 15:12
  6. Fantastic post, Isabels, and I loved The Cost of Living. Congratulations Isabel R on your awards and residency.
    I’m a little afraid of poetry, although I love hearing it read to me – my problem is that I tend to read poetry to myself too fast.
    But I do find rhythm is important in choosing the words for my fiction and, it seems, the shorter the piece the more that comes across.
    It’s something I know I’d benefit from learning more about.

    Posted by Annecdotist | January 14, 2016, 10:14
  7. Isabel is a sumptuously talented poet and living proof that poetry (the reading or writing thereof) need not be a scary prospect.

    Having said that, somebody once wrote…

    Poetry is emotion. It is love, longing, beauty, desire, joy, regret and reminiscence. It should not be easy, either in the writing or the reading. It should present the reader with acute but abstruse observations of the commonplace; the things we are so accustomed to seeing and feeling that we often fail to appreciate them on any level beyond the prosaic. It should shift perspective in order to bring the subject into sharper focus. It should perplex and delight in equal measure.

    The best novels, I think, are probably the same.

    Posted by Julian Beach | January 23, 2016, 02:01
  8. Interesting post, Isabel, and I can identify/agree with your points above, though I do think something is a poem if the person who wrote it calls it one (though it’s gonna be a very bad poem if it’s just random, higgledy-piggledy words, most likely). Really enjoyed reading this. All the best. Trevor

    Posted by Trevor Conway | January 23, 2016, 21:26
  9. So must it be with all writing; if it can’t be heard, no point in reading it.

    “The level of attention when writing a poem can approach zen-like stillness, when you are attuned to the rhythm and cadence of a line.”

    Posted by egbertstarr | September 10, 2016, 12:20
  10. I had to read this twice and carefully ; you have packed in so much. Like most I’m just a dabbler and without any higher education or grammatical training. Hardy at his best is magical and I think The Mayor of Casterbridge his finest novel. Do you think there is any truth in learning poetry to appreciate it ? Certainly nobody learns novels but some remember Bible verses and devout Muslims learn the Koran.
    Perhaps familiarity makes us believe it is poetic it certainly fixes it in the brain.
    ‘ Was it for this the clay grew tall ?’

    Posted by kertsen | September 16, 2016, 09:37


  1. Pingback: What can a poet teach a novelist? | isabelrogers.org - January 13, 2016

  2. Pingback: Words and poetry and me | The Literary Sofa - January 20, 2016

  3. Pingback: In the Media: January 2016 | The Writes of Woman - January 24, 2016

  4. Pingback: Guest Author – Isabel Rogers on Writing about Music | The Literary Sofa - February 13, 2019

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: